If there is one thing I care about, it's Originality. "Rock On" the movie, from its very campaign seems to be ridden with stereotypes and plagiarism. And Plagiarism makes me angry. It is the diametric opposite to Originality.
Have a look at the "Rock On" campaign poster:
- Look at the "Live Your Dream" headline. Notice the cool sign with wings underneath it. Looks familiar? No? Check this out.
- Check out the four band members. All of them are wearing the typical "rocker" outfits: Black T-shirts with "brutal" pictures on them, Jeans and Goggles.
- The movie name itself, "Rock On!!!" is nothing original, it's just a popular mode of expression if a band performs well.
- And then, finally, beneath the name, is a cassette. Very Original that.
About the movie itself, I have no opinions, I haven't seen it. But the point is, I don't want to.
This invites me to write about some real Rock music that has originated from India as well as Pakistan. Music that has originality and uniqueness as its foundation, not some popular culture that is considered "cool" by the masses:
Indian Ocean
Indian Ocean define themselves as "The sound of contemporary India getting to know itself". And I completely agree. Their music derives heavily from Indian Folk Music, including songs, styles, vocals, rhythms, while maintianing a very heavy and true Rock music heaviness. Though they aren't limited just to Rock. They are like Dream Theater in musical styles, they play in any style.Indian Ocean songs have excellent classical vocal styles, brilliant tabla beats, mixed with heavy drumming, guitar riffs, and guitar solos too, to produce a unique and talented sound.
I recommend "Bandheh" and "Maa Rewa" for those who haven't heard them. (Downloadable Free from the links provided, their own website)
Most importantly, Indian Ocean as a live act is stunningly professional and great sounding. Having attended one of their concerts, I was left stunned at the amount of talent these plainly dressed old guys have.
Fuzon
Featuring the talents of Shafqat Amanat Ali (whom you heard on the song "Mitwa" in the film "Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna"), this band features a brilliant mix of classical Indian music with Jazz and rock styles. Their songs (like "Aankhon Ke Saagar", "Khamaj", "Malhar") are excellently composed and performed.Sadly, Shafqat left the band to pursue a solo career in India. However the band hired an equally talented Rameez Mukhtar and released a new album featuring the song "Neend Na Aaye" which maintains their standards of music.
Agnee
A single song from them("Saadho Re") was enough to impress me. The song features a compositional style as detailed as Metallica's classic song "Master of Puppets" (though not as detailed and heavy). Their songs are heavy and enjoyable with a very original style.Apart from these are well known acts such as Jal, Junoon and Call.
I say "Rock On" to their spirit: of having the strength to be original, of trying to create and not sell out to people and their stereotypical minds. They are the future of Indian music.
And yes, before I leave, I must introduce you to two new members of my room:
Say hi to RG321 MH from Ibanez and MG 10 CD from Marshall, my very good pals!
You'll be hearing a lot more from them pretty soon!
100 comments:
Hi, w/e Ibanez. Have heard so much of u! so good 2 meet u!
and hi w/e marshall, hope u r doing fine nw. alok ws just miserable w/o u...hope alls well...
back 2 post
Indian ocean, Fuzon n Agnee..
*bows*
and as far as the movie is concerned, its nothing abt rock music as I am told :-P
I shall see the movie and then comment on the matter. its well written though!
hey,
I bet u have this psychic kinda thing huh to give out reviews without viewing.. lol
but this time, me with u. Rock On is boring! (No me haven't seen it.. nor do I intend to) The songs of this movie itself gave it reviews! ;)
Bet it's another Dil chahta hai with the only difference being the characters have turned out to be band members instead of freaks ugh!
bdw... Indian Ocean Rocks!!!
Ah, first I thought wow ! A review from Alok on rock music !!
Hmmm.. you have expressed a different angle here. Everyone is all crazy for this movie, I haven't seen but would like to... just for a change.
Alok, I'll link it to BB. OK ?
Last picture looks so familiar now & you know why. :-)
P.S. Why don't you enable your posts for e-mailing as well ? Now I'll have to give this link to that 17 yr old brat !
Take care.
Alok, I have scheduled your post for 6th.
I love the work of skinny alley and Fossils too...they are as aweosme as Indian ocean...
I am so jealous of you !!
Here I am still nurturing the desires of learning to play guitar someday...and you compose songs, have a band, and now have that baby to yourself ?!!!!
I feel like a non-entity !
Well, about the post, you have a very different opinion about the movie. And some of your points actually match with mine.
I for one, dint understand why, Purab had to be weirdly made up, why they had to wear all that gothic tees, black goggles, sport long hair, the flying machine bird kinda logo, and the lack lustre songs !!
I wasnt that excited about wanting it to watch it after the reviews started coming in. Havent watched it till now. Lets see , if after this post, I'd still wanna burn 200 bux for it.
OH yeah, I agree with Sourish ! Fossils are awesome !!!
Have you ever listened to them ?
They're the original makers of songs "bheegi bheegi si"...which was a bengali rock song in original....which was later redone in hindi.
Express,
The guitar and amp say "hi". :D
Thanks for the comment!
Shwetz,
Oh yeah, I truly am psychic. What I predict turns out to be precisely correct. In any case, as I mentioned, this was not meant to be a movie review.
I agree with you, I find the songs to be mediocre. Nothing special.
Yes, Indian Ocean \m/
Thanks for the comment!
Cuckoo,
:)
Hey, thanks for linking this post!
Heheh, I'm sure I want to hear the brat playing some stuff on his guitar. I'm going to upload some more of my work soon.
Thanks for the comments!
P.S. Okay, I'll enable email posts now.
The Daydreamer,
Hey thanks for the recommendations!
I haven't heard of either of these bands. Though I have heard the original version of "Bheegi Bheegi"
I'll get hold of these bands.
Cinderella,
:D
All you gotta do is get hold of a guitar (acoustic is much more enjoyable) and get to know a few chord shapes from the internet, and there you go, you become a guitarist!
Yeah, I've read the reviews about the movie. They do seem to be pretty positive. But well, I really don't want to watch the movie.
I haven't heard The Fossils, though I have heard a lot from the Bangla underground music scene (Chandrabindoo, Bhoomi, et al). Though I have heard the original version of "Bheegi Bheegi". Lemme get hold of their music...
Thanks for the comments!
Cinderella,
Actually Fossils aren't the original composers of the song (they might have done a rendition).
The original version was composed by Gautam Chattopadhyay. And sung by Bonnie from Krosswindz.
dude thats A GOOD AXE!!
Scribblers Inc.
hey buddy wat ever it is i liked the movies..songs are good tooo..at first sounds silly but when u hear it for 2nd time u likeit
Blah blah blah blah blah blah .. Ibanez ...blah blah blah blah
Hey....ROCK ON!! id fabulous...go watch it and u'll wanna see it again...the music is good too :)
BTW, bina dekhe kaisa review?? LOL!
I've seen the movie..and though it is sort of different, it is an emotional saga!!
I had made a documentary film in college (with 3 other class mates). We called it "Rock Hard", and was basically about how rock isn't a favorite genre of music in India..and stuff like that. A team mate had suggested "Rock On" as a title..which of course was shot down:D
And yes, I had met Loy during the filming..we interviewed him for our film:D
True, the music isn't rock rock, but the tunes are hummable..at least "Pichle saat din" is..heard it?
I thought u will give a review but seriously the facts are very true.
What about the songs u sung and u put them on your blog...put more...i like listening them
First of all,fuck you for possessing that Ibanez.
Second,I just saw Rock On today.Even I had reservations about watching it before this,but once you DO watch it,its pretty good.Its not about making music to please audiences.In fact,the reason why the band splits up is BECAUSE the recording company they were signing up with wanted to bastardize their music with what's popular with the masses and what the trend is.
I had maximum reservations about how the music would NOT end up being rock,but after hearing them,they turned out to be QUITE rock,and not just POP songwriting with distortion thrown in.
But yes of course,there WERE tiny flaws like the drummer's hands moving too fast for the tempo that's playing,and though Arjun Rampal DIDN'T actually end up looking like an item dancer with and unplugged electric guitar in his hand,he couldn't really pull off the solo sections that well.And you can clearly hear whammies in the solo,but his guitar doesn't have a whammy bar.
The instruments were a pleasant surprise as well.No longer were they the generic 'Stratocaster-shape-but-Givson-sound' type of crap used in item numbers,but Arjun Rampal plays a fucking IBANEZ JEM,and Farhan Akhtar plays a Squier in the early days and later gets a bloody GIBSON LES PAUL.
Also,the band does not have a bass player but Luke Kenny provides synth-bass,but there are times when you hear bass AND keyboard together!!!
Also #2:Their band's name is MAGIK,very gay.Their rival band is a Groove Metal band called Chakravyuh!!!!AMAZING music!!!
agreed
havin watched it
rock on is completely cliched
Indian Oceannnnnnnnn
crazy for 'em! Nd yea yea I have seen them perform live!!!
Btw I have seen the movie...watch it and you'll have more to add! Agree to most of the things there...still I say, movie was good :)
yeah well i guess it must be a feel good movie. most of people liked chak de india and it was a copy of 2005 kurt russel movie called ' miracle" even the dialogues were same. what ultimately is the aim is that they provide entertainment .which is what they do. leave all d logic n cynicism behind n enjoy the movie. i noe i sound demented but ud sound the same if u have doses like tashan, luv story 2050 and bachna ae haseeno :p and thanx for the steve ka comment
Scribblers Inc.,
:)
I know!
Rakesh,
I think this is the common opinion about the post. I must clarify: this is not a movie review. I mentioned it the first thing in my post. Originality was the theme of this post.
Soham,
Precisely. :D \m/
Meghna,
Yeah, precisely. This is not a review. The post is about deeper things.
The movie might be good, I'm not denying that. But is the idea behind it something original, something which the makers of the movie can call their own?
Crasiezt,
:)
I must say, "Rock On" as a title for a movie based on rock music is so cliche it makes me go 'urgh'.
Nice to hear about your movie, did you upload it somewhere?
P.S. Have heard the songs. They are hummable, I agree with you. Some of them are even very catchy. But the point is, nothing shines out. Agnee's "Sadho Re" is a thousand times better than any "Rock On" song. SEL did a better job in Taare Zameen Par in my opinion, especially "Kholo Kholo" (the acoustic riff the song begins with, brilliantly original)
Sahefa,
:)
Phew, you're one of the few here who understands this is not a movie review.
More songs from Mirage coming soon!
Metal-Militant,
1. Muhahah }:D
2. This post wasn't meant to be a review about the movie. I mentioned it at the very beginning. The movie might be good, but is the idea behind it something new?
3. It's nice to hear that "Selling Out" is a strong theme in the movie.
4. Of course if the movie were to be made believable, the details have to be perfect. I think if they involved Luke Kenny in the movie, they would care about using proper gear and stuff.
5. MAGIK ?! :O :D
Aditi,
Precisely. The movie might be good. I'm not denying that.
But have they run out of ideas that they need to make movies about Rock music?
Sach,
:) Indian Ocean is awesome.
Yeah, from what I've heard the movie is good. But that's not what I'm talking about here.
Spicymist,
Yes, that is the point. Entertainment. I completely agree with you. Their goal is to provide entertainment, and I must say they have done a good job, judging from the reviews and people's reactions.
But is it only entertainment that I want? Nope. That's the point of this post.
Hehe you do sound Demented, so was I when I saw "Waah Life Ho To Aisi"
And your post on Steve Irwin was beautiful. Honest and True. Let's keep his spirit alive.
I am impressed... You gave me a completely new perspective....
Though I have seen the movie and I kinda liked it... I did feel that it was little too dramatic for the kind of theme they had taken... Specially Rob dying in the end outta brain tumor thing... Still all in all I found it to be a decent movie...
Am a big fan of Indian Ocean. haven't heard much of Fuzon , but love Shafqat Ali's voice.
As far as your new pals are considered... make some more music and share it :) Would love to listen to ur songs :)
And sorry for this, but am really jealous of you... I so wanna learn to play guitar :9 but aint finding the perfect place to learn it from and to be true I do not really have much of time on my hands :(
I had learnt classical music for 7 years and now I really repent, cuz I have almost left playing the instruments and doing my riyaaz year sback :(
Alok,
Here is the link..
http://www.blogbharti.com/cuckoo/music/3402/
Good job Nidhi,we really needed that spoiler ;-)
To be frank, your criticisms are far fetched and don't carry any merit whatsoever! Though I do agree that the bands you have mentioned are pretty good, other stuff you have said are just stupid. Check my counterpost if you will.
Dude, I have not watched the movie. Nor do I care to. I never go to the theatre to watch movies. Just watch what comes on DTH free to air channels, what plays on the bus when I shuttle between two cities some weekends, and what i can have a quick watch at when eating in office cafeteria.
So you see I have no opinions good or bad on the movie as such.
But aren't you being unnecessaryily harsh on a movie which you haven't even seen.
True the music may not be 'real rock', but they have to earn money so popular audience appeal is more important.
If they made 'real rock music', they would become real rock band. So they might as well go on a tour than make a movie.
They are just actors trying to play the part of rock stars.
Since they are not really making 'rock music' in the movie, just imagine how unidentifiable they would be as rock group if they didn't dress in 'typical "rocker" outfits as you put it!
You are praising the plain dressed talents and originality of some of the real bands.
But just imagine what would have happened if the movie used palin clothes and originality!
The real bands can do anything cos what they do will be the new definition of rock. Movie guys have to use all the cliches of rock to convey that the goup is rock band and then continue with the actual story.
Let me explain by analogy..
Consider the police in your city- the mumbai Police. The Mumbai Police may one day decide to change its uniform. Then that will become the new uniform and identity of mumbai police. But film ppl portraying the mumbai police have to dress like mumbai police to look the part. They cant suddenly decide to have orange uniforms for mumbai police in the movie.
"Rock on" is just a phrase? Exactly. And one you can easily relate to. Take any damn movie the words in title are all standard words of the language that you can relate to.
Anyways I am just arguing for the sake of it. I am least bothered about this or any movie or any rock band. But still I don't mind watching a movie or listening if a not so loud and mad rock song is playing
If they would not dress like 'typical"rockers"', how would people identify them as rockers.
stupidosaur:
you say you haven't seen the movie,yet you assume that the music is not Rock music.Well,I've seen it and it is.But that's not what I want to take up here.
You say that if they were ACTUALLY a Rock band in the movie,they might as well focus on writing Rock music rather than a movie.In that case what will they show in the movie?If its a movie about a Rock band,they HAVE TO show the music right?Or do you want them to show the band on drinking binges and midnight romps???Because the general public's concept of Rock is 'Sex,Drugs and Rock n Roll' so they should show exactly that to ensure massive audiences?
And why the hell SHOULDN'T they show the band in plain clothes?Isn't a Rock band identified by the 'NOISE that they make'?And that Mumbai police analogy is totally out of place.Just read it once and you'll agree.
You say that you don't care about Rock bands,so I doubt you should pretend to know stuff about it.All your arguments are based on the ignorant public's viewpoint of Rock,which is not the truth.
Nidhi,
Now it's my turn to be impressed!
You're the second person on the blogosphere I know who has received a training in Indian Classical Music (The other one being Express over here).
As far as my experience with the guitar goes, no practice goes to waste. It all comes back pretty naturally no matter how long you haven't practiced. Would definitely like to hear something from you. :)
I've uploaded a new song. Do check it out.
About the movie: as Ishaan here points out, you've let the cat out of the bag! But it doesn't matter, I wasn't going to watch it anyways.
Cuckoo,
:)
Thank you!
The post has drawn a reaction, though it's the complete opposite of what I wanted to say.
Metal-Militant,
Ahhh that so reminded me of DCH.
Rockus,
I have replied at your post.
Let me explain my post here: It Is Not A Movie Review.
I have mentioned that twice in the post. As you rightly point out, how can I come up with a review if I haven't seen the movie?
This post was meant to discuss the issue of originality, of stereotypes, of mindsets. If I mention "Rock Music", all that comes in mind is Harley Davidson, Black T-shirts, Jeans, Guitars, and Loudness.
But Rock and Metal are primarily movements focusing on breaking of stereotypes, of being original, of producing unexpected and unconventional music, dressing, attitudes. It's about Freedom.
Most importantly of all, it's about the music. Nothing else matters. The musicians might represent their individuality as they like, by dressing the way they want to, whatever. But if the music isn't good, no matter what they do, they won't impress me.
I think if you look at my post with a bird-eye's view, it appears as a judgmental, biased opinion. Maybe I am being unfair to the movie. Maybe the story is good. But the point is, is it something new? Or is it just stuff picked up from different places and amalgamated into a movie?
This post is about originality. That's all.
Stupidosaur,
I think Metal-Militant here has said what I wanted to say.
Everything else I've written as a reply to Rockus here.
I agree with you, I am being a bit harsh on the movie. But as I said to Rockus, this post is not about the movie. It's about originality and stereotypes.
Dude, the movie is about 4 guys making a rock band. The rock bands I see around are the same kind. Drawing inspiration from others. There are some who are different. If every single big band was original, we would have had a million genres instead of the 100 genres that rock music has now. Your points about originality are moot as I have already said. Stereotyping rock bands as you say fits into the movies perspective. Simply because thats how the majority of the bands are. As I said in my post again, I cannot comprehend you hailing some bands (albeit they are good) as thoroughly original when they are simply not! About originality, if you are going by your strict standard of originality, then the world would have had very few art, be it literature, music, or dance. Its all about presenting the human emotions and btw we are only capable of may be a hundred of those. This movie is not about rock music, its about a few humans, if you understand that species!
Oooooooooh I am soooooooo sorry.. I never noticed I ruined the movie for the ones who are yet to watch it :(
I took a good break from my job and spent a month at home, now I feel rejuvenated and am now looking fwd to start practising again... I just wish the enthusiasm doesnt die this time...
I mentioned this on Soham's blog also today, that either there is some problem with my browsers or may be with my laptop only... am not able to play any of your songs :(
If possible gimme some another link to your music... Waiting to listen to your music...
And yeah !! I would like to add your blog to my blogroll.... only with your permission :)
hehhee...you are funny..u belong to that elite list of people who puts out a different opinion from the masses just to make their own name shine thorugh. so that others would think that here's a guy with a different perception than us normal human beings..bravo!
by different opinion from masses, I dont mean someone saying bollywood is bad(its 99% bad:D)...its someone who says something untrue just for the sake of making a different opinion from the masses.
your comment on the rock band's attire itself shows your eye(or rather lack of it) for detail. Have you actually gone to any rock concert? Most of the bands in India(not international) wear black Tees having big pics of their rock n metal idols, even India's biggest bands do that.
and wats wrong with having a cassete beneath the title?tell me how many films had the same poster..we all grew up listening to music in cassetes and we should actually applaud the makers for not putting a cd underneath the title..
and talking about plagiarism for the movie title...am fed up with you man:D...if you call this plagiarism, then most of the movie titles are plagiarised...for the sake of being original, should they add new words to the dictionary?
about the music..u must understand that a hindi film caters to a wide vareity of people..not hardcore metal maniacs alone. if that was the case, we could have brought in judas priest to do the soundtrack. what shankar-ehsaan-loy has done is absolutely amazing considering the case that they had to satisfy a wide range of audience, not just rockers alone. and they have done it with absolute ease. talking about solos, have you actually heard the solos from rock on, pichle saat din and socha hai? what I can see from your bashing of the music is just bashing for the sake of it. Just to prove to your readers that you are a hardcore rocker who doesn't like that tinge of commercialism in music. will tell you a simple thing, try to see the good things in life and make it a habit to applaud if its good, rather than go on cribbing..its so fucking boring man..
and the biggest folly of all..passing opinion about something without actually having seen it. that itself takes the weight away from your hollow mindless bashing.
about the bands u mentioned.. I really do like these bands, a big fan of Indian ocean.
And there are other great bands in India..do checkout motherjane, junkyard groove, avial, parikrama, skinny alley, Thermal and a quarter..
just a small advise...open your mind..let some sense in..let more music in
Alok,
A good post that made me listen to some good music. Thank you for sharing.
I don't know about the movie Rock On as I haven't seen it but after reaching here, I played some of my favorite tracks of Indian Ocean and am delighted about it. Bandeh (Black Friday?) and Ma Rewa are never tiring. When you are on my blog next, do check out the Label 'Bedaghat' for a view of the two contrasting moods of the River Narmada.
Rockus,
See, everyone begins by copying their idols. It is the way we learn. However, with time, as you learn and you grow in proficiency, you start expressing yourself as an individual through the music. That is what originality is all about.
I saw the movie's concept, and I found it to be something extremely cliched. A movie about a rock band, how original is that?
If for once I accept that the concept might not be necessarily original, I look at the execution, and what do I find? More cliches and more stereotypes.
The bands I mentioned here have struggled with obscurity, neglect and lack of funds. But they are successful in maintaining their originality.
If you think Indian Ocean's style is not very original, just try counting time signatures in any one of their songs.
You can label art with genres and categories, but the fact is, every band has its own genre and its the amount of originality and skill that makes the art successful. True, art is about expressing emotions and twisting of reality. But it's more about the ingenuity and the uniqueness with which the artist does it.
So you see, this movie comes across to me as a representation of a very popular notion of Rock music and culture. The story might be good, whatever, the post is Not About The Movie.
Nidhi,
:D
No harm done.
Nice, keep practicing, and keep strong. :)
Check out this link for our songs. I hope you don't encounter the same problem over there.
And yes, permission granted. ;D
Praveen,
Thank you so much for your insightful analysis of my psychology. It was indeed very helpful and relevant to the post.
I'd like to ask you, is there anything "untrue" about my post?
It's just my opinion on observing the way things are represented and stereotyped.
You have given counter-arguments to each of my points, but essentially my point remains: Do I need to watch a movie on Rock Music, all filled with standard portrayal of this culture?
Why should I watch it, if it's nothing new to me? Why should the movie's makers be given credit if they haven't done anything new but represented elsewhere common and prevalent ideas to an unaware population?
Do you now get the point of my post?
And my dear Praveen, wherever did I say we should bring in heavy metal and Judas Priest in the movie? Aren't I talking about originality all the time? Why am I praising Indian Ocean (who did a soundtrack for the movie "Black Friday")?
I will applaud something if it appeals to me, not because you tell me it's good. I don't find the music in this movie appealing. That's it. And solos aren't the only reason.
If I were trying to "prove" to everyone that I'm a hardcore rocker and "bashing" the movie just for the sake of it, I'd be spreading my reviews all over and trying to gain as much attention as possible.
This post is not "agenda" against the movie. It was written to express my love for originality and my dislike for something that is not. I wrote about bands that are the real fighters and struggle to maintain their individuality against people who cannot look beyond stereotypes. This is the reason why Cuckoo linked this post.
You liked the movie, good for you, I find it repulsive.
And yes, thank you for the advice.
Indicaspecies,
:)
Indian Ocean is brilliant. "Bandheh" was the closing song from the movie "Black Friday". Excellent composition. And yes, you said it right, these songs are never tiring. :)
I've been to Bhedaghat and the Narmada on numerous occasions because of my stay in Jabalpur, and it is indeed a brilliant atmosphere (though it suffers from a general lack of care).
The song so reminds me of that place...
“Indian Ocean” is the best, no doubt about it.
Congratulation! for bringing the two new members to your room :)
Happy Muzik hunting!
If for once I accept that the concept might not be necessarily original, I look at the execution, and what do I find? More cliches and more stereotypes.
You liked the movie, good for you, I find it repulsive.
How can you comment on the movie's execution and find it repulsive if you haven't seen it? Words fail me...
Fuckin' Hell!! A new Ibanez!! Fuck YOU man!!! x-(
:D
And TERRIFIC post! Absolutely in-your-face-ly spot on!!! Bloody mainstream conventions, and the plans to cash in on them...in the name of bringing rock to the forefront...That's all I think about the movie. I mean friggin' HOW can a regular band NOT have a bassist, even for form's sake? :|
Ooh and I haven't watched it either, and neither do I plan to.
Well written.
I know that! Did read the post..just wanted to add up to the post.
and Kandisa is hot too. u didnt mention that one or hille le jagjor. the music is very catchy even though i most of the times i dunt understand the meaning of the songs. abt the movie, entertainmet was for what this movie was made. now if u want more, there are movies like mumbai meri jaan, tzp,black,et al. yeah this one was a bit dramatc but the songs were pretty rad. didn't get bugged like i did watching thoda pyar thoda magic which was a movie with a moral :-| and i think i went a bit OTT about steve in that post :P
Alok,
:)
Thank you!
You know, I'm glad to see so many fans of Indian Ocean around.
Rockus,
So you think I'm so nonchalant as to not inquire about the movie and the story and the theme and the plot?
I think I'm repeating this the Nth time: I am not against the movie as a whole. I find it repulsive because of the theme chosen, and I'm talking about the execution of the chosen theme as in the way the characters are portrayed (from whatever I've read, heard or seen about it).
Jadis,
...And Fuck you too, says my Ibanez.:D
That's not the last you'll be hearing from him.
Glad you share my perspective. Though I'm not as against the nonexistence of the bass player (bass is done by Luke on Keyboards), which I think is a pretty innovative idea.
What I don't like is, as you said, trying to use "mainstream conventions" in building movies and spreading them to people who are unaware of it.
Sach,
Whoops, I apologize. I mistook your comment.
I'm not sure if I really wanna watch the movie. Probably if someday I have nothing better to do, I'll watch it.
:) Thanks for the comment!
Spicymist,
:) :) :)
You know, while writing the post, I wanted to write that the whole of the album "Kandisa" is awesome. But I chose not to give too much detail and pointed out one of the more easily recognisable and catchy songs from the album so that someone who's new to Indian Ocean could have a nice introduction.
I love the whole album! Each and every song is intricate and ingenious.
And yes, the post about Steve was great, man. Anyone who had seen the man in action would feel the same.
Dude Damn Dude,
I DISAGREE !!
Dare u bully Rock On .. Just see the Logo on the right hand down corner.. BIG in Omi comes from there..
So how many of the campaigns of rock on have you seen to judge the work to be plagiarized.. this people have worked super hard to carve a niche..
How many movies have you seen which had similar theme. (In bollywood) considering not even 2/10th of our population see a flick/ Album released outside India.
And I have seen that logo.. they are similar but not the same
even copyright act will give the benefit in our favor..
crap mate.. the movie is superbly amazing... common u should just see then re post a review..
If Farhan reads this post he is bout to get a coronary failure..
i m against this post.. music is so damn awwwsum .. actually very good..
Do u really expect a Rock Band to wear some Indian nethnic wear.. no naaa.. so there dress code is very much in sync with the current rock band industry ..
its simply amazing and for the first time I disagree with your post...
and welcome to your new pals ..
I totally agree with you. I saw the movie but I had a lot of issues with it. the end too. It was a masala movie and they had a "poster wife" character: Sakshi who would always "attend" to her husband.
It was a good premise. It could have been better if they hadn't succumbed to the stereotype or faux rock wana be.
hey Alok.
no offense dude just wanted to say that i liked the movie...:-)
ne ways wanted to tell u that I have tagged u
see if u wish to do it
Acepted that this movie might lead to the birth of another generalisation,
But at the same time :art is for art's sake :)
Not taking plagiarism in its official sense, i think we can call a piece of art plagiarised only if it’s a strewn and dirty copy which reminds us of d original (like Pritam dusnt 'plagiarise'...it’s new art in a better form, if we keep demeaning every work like that, we may never reach that ‘better’ stage...the same difference i make b/w influence and learning.
So,while every generalisation may lead to more plagiarism, yet the converse mayn’t be true(:it may lead to something good also like a new genre of music).
Now i don’t feel myself too qualified to comment for this post given my little knowledge of technical music and ive only heard the main song(which dint impress me too well)y
So anyway, this comment was basically to applaud n in appreciation of the song which was great to listen to, wonderful music esp. The high ‘windings’(like “siwaa a a aa”) which give it the emotions and feelings its meant to convey...i cudnt get the lyrics too well but sumtyms they did seem plagiarised only lil bit though :)...(4rm na koi hai na koi tha zindagi mein tumhare siwaa n some other places 2... ) but overall, the song was an excellent treat!
Haha!!!Pritam does not plagiarise?Oh hell no!!!He just takes the rhythm,beats and tune of every Korean song out there and puts his own lyrics in.Yea,that's not plagiarism at all.
With most blogs posting a review/Critisisms, very refreshing to see a different take on the movie...
And of course giving due credit to the actual Indian rock bands :)
Did i also have to take ur permission bfore blogrolling u? :)
why did u leave out junoon bro... i really respect them for the work they do..both on and off the stage..
i totally agree with u on the dch thing...
@mental milli
Then better a successful plagiarist than an unsuccessful musician...
So easy to criticise, but I really think its ‘inspiration’...till these things start coming on ur own. While originality is a virtue, it is not attained in “sudden flight”.
With uses,come corresponding misuses of everything: it can be inspiration which yields to originality, or it can be blatant unlearning use of music...and I think the laws in our country take care of that much.
Wudnt be enjoying such good music, had it not been learnt and adapted to our own version, to suit a new context,so ideally:that also takes something(i’d like u to do that much,if it seems to petty to u).
Big Omi,
Dude, I think I have been very clear in the post to mention that I am not posting a review about the movie. Whatever amount of hard work that is behind it, I am not devaluing it.
I think my answer to your comment lies in your comment itself:
"How many movies have you seen which had similar theme. (In bollywood) considering not even 2/10th of our population see a flick/ Album released outside India."
Precisely. So basically the concept is being popularised among people who aren't aware of Rock culture, and I must admit, the way it is shown, people will love it.
But the point is, so what? What's new about it? For a person like me who has been (somewhat) acquainted with the real Rock music scene in India, the movie isn't anything new, it just appears as an effort to present to the population a culture that is previously alien to them.
Look at the bands I've posted. They could have chosen to copy and paste too. Just imagine the kind of trouble they had to endure to maintain their originality. But they did and that's the reason I respect them.
Mansi,
:)
Long time since you've been here!
I haven't seen the movie, so I can't say anything about it. But from whatever I saw of the movie, I knew I wouldn't enjoy seeing it.
Thanks for visiting!
Rakesh,
Hey, none taken man!
I'm not exactly spreading hate against the movie here, if you like the movie, it's well and good with me. :D
Thank you for tagging me!
I'll do the tag over at your blog, as I don't like tags on my blog. Capiche?
Ayushi,
For one thing, I accept that learning begins by observing and mimicking your idols. However, there comes a stage when you have learnt enough to be able to express what's on your mind through your art. And that is where originality comes in.
Music, if you look at it, has many different aspects, and two of them are "The Composition" and "The Sound". Speaking from my own experience in music making, composition and arrangement requires 90% of the effort and the sound is just a trial and error thing, it comes from experience.
What Pritam does is rip off the composition and present it in a newer and more acceptable sound. He doesn't even give credits to the creator of the piece. I think that's blatant plagiarism.
"better a successful plagiarist than an unsuccessful musician"
I sorely disagree. What's success to you, being loved by an ignorant crowd or having the satisfaction of creating something new?
And "adapting to our version", see, that's the problem. People tend to look at the surface (that is the sound) and ignore the real effort (the composition) unless they find the sound according to their tastes. The beauty of the piece lies in the composition, not in its presentation.
Metal-militant,
:D
Swathi,
:) :)
You're one of the few people who understands that this is not a review or a criticism of the movie.
Thank you!
And yes, *Assumes bossy voice* Permission Granted. ;)
The Paratrooper,
Junoon was so on my mind while writing this post. I chose not to mention them because they've disbanded now, and frankly, I think nobody is unaware of them.
And yeah the DCH solo, man it still gives me goosebumps.
Important and powerful points, all of them :)
Oh but success hasn’t got nything to do with either popularity or newness because in art, I expect neither. Success to me, would be having expressed myself to my heights(even if that includes tit bits from other compositions).
(And in that case, i must credit Pritam for the excellent ‘sound’ work he’s done.)
“ignore the real effort”...effort doesn’t come in the picture either, the whole essence of learning is that the effort lessens(or why not start with our animal instincts?)
While I accept that originality and quality of composition as two separate issues, I prefer concentrating on the latter more.
Concludingly, I remain by my previous stand that plagiarism is not the root of all generalisations...it keeps being chosen as a scapegoat...
Congratulation Ayushi, you have successfully laid down the set of guidelines required for selling out.According to you,the musician must change an already existing piece of music so that it sounds better to the general public. Hence,that particular 'musician' ensure commercial success i.e selling out. He may/may not feel good about it,but since its the easier way out,its the smarter way out as well. He must keep in mind what the current 'context' i.e trend is and keep with it.
So you like music that sounds good,fair enough.But what if its a song you have heard before and the guy releasing a 'better' version of it has not labelled it as a cover?What I saw in the news was convincing enough:they played a Pritam song,and then played the Korean original.You would have to be half deaf to say that the 2 do not sound the same.And you dismiss this as inspiration??? I hope you never become a law enforcer,you'll forgive murder.
Ayushi,
Apologies for not replying back to your comment completely.
Thank you so much for listening to "Naa Koi". :) :)
Yup, I told Soham that the lyrics sound cheesy and commonly used, but well, he couldn't come up with anything else. :D
Glad you enjoyed the song. :)
Ha ha ..Thanks :D
hypocrisy rules everywhere nowadays...but never mind, i adore then too
@ metal-militant
Oh you can throw rotten tomatoes at me dude, No problem.
“may not feel good “....What with a metal head, when getting things across doesn’t get easy,added to a seemingly sporadic obsession of misuses,,my mild comments don’t stand a chance...go figure again. And btw, I’m against capital punishment.
I,infact,would like to wrap up my comment series by answering ur q:
Yeah,that would be plagiarism,and speaking against it now(as alok is ) wud be the best option and quite effectively the most time killing one bcoz u can’t make any1 percieve art by logic. (art plays with emotions, if we like a song,we don’t like it to be called ‘plagiarised’-..eg:me), till we go more global(as is happening due to copying itself, enuf to feel plagiarism in the 1st impressn),then the voice is gonna be strong against plg. It’s like nature’s cycle, when the –ve forces rise beyond the +ve ones, the thing gets destroyed.
@alok
Too many smilies... x|
are man legends live on... have u heard that UN concert ?
@ayushi
Just listen the original songs from which Pritam has "taken up" the tunes , if you have not yet !
I was listening to (hmmm i think radio city 91.1) radio , where they called up pritam and then played "tak bisaka" (the original song of kya mujhe pyaar hain of the movie Wo lamhe), the RJ asked " Sir yeh kya hain, yeh kya hain ? yeh dhun se suni suni lag rahi hain? " Pritam said in reply- " I have no idea what u are saying ".The RJ then said - " Yeh dhun apne copy karke kya mujhe pyaar hain banaya hain, apne aisa kyun kiya? " , pritam said-" Sorry i didn't realize that,maine bilkul realize nahi kiya". This is not a second or third person account, this is what I heard live on radio.
An added information - The movie Wo lamhe was shot in Indonesia , and "tak bisaka" is a song from an Indonesian band. The song "Aao milo chale "(I used to love this song unless..x-( ) has also been "inspired" by a song of the same band and in fact the "same album" as that of "tak bisaka". (:P)
In the above "factual" description ,I never mentioned pritam is a "plagiarist" ,it is open to interpretation (:D,:P)
Anyway the song - Naa koi , hmmm, I knew from day one of the song that starting lyrics are same as that of the song "Jab koi baat bigad jaye" (I love this song) , I have a bad habit i.e. I forget the new tunes that I come up with. So to remember the tune I use some dummy lyrics just to remember the tune.And as it figured out that I didn't find anything better than that to replace , so I continued with it.
Whenever I come up with a tune ,I ask the first question-"have u heard this somewhere?" ,If I get no then only I proceed , I believe I shouldn't use the music and ideas of someone else to make me happy, I cannot face myself in mirror if I do that.
PS:- Don't worry , normally I don't write much and I hate debating and all, but today was my philosophy of mind exam so.. :P :D....
oh yea mn yea,i respect democracy... all right...dun have much time for now but i'll say that i have seen the vids...go 2 utube...all cmpared 1 by 1 nicely...thts wat i say after seeing them all(and gettin a lot of dissapoinmnt)
oh nevere mind ur song's really nice,i bly tis al right as long as u havent cpyed delibrtly.
Basically you love anybody who sells out.Understood.
sorry to join in suddenly but ayushi: "copied deliberately" is an oxymoron. If you copy it IS deliberate. Pritam makes peppy fun music which even I love! But the fact of the matter is, he is a bloody thief. He's stolen tunes, rhythm et al and made his fortune off other's people's hard work. That is definitely not art in its true form. Theft, yes. Business, yep. Art? Nope.
^^^^This.
@metal m.:
Dont worry your little head on the loves and life of Ayushi.
ps:realy din wanna reply(my time is more precious than ur infltd head),but my answering back syndrome has yet some time b4 its cure,go get a life n stop it.
@ ki: You have got many issues down your gut, hun.
oxymoron you for having gotten activated so late or are you just joinin for ur dear metal head here? for ur picking up on words and not concepts. f* ur timings...now that i dun have enuf time...a day or two b4 wud 've bn fyn
Anything which you express for the sake of emotions is art. Uniqueness,while a virtue(denoting the lack of influence) is nevertheless not a compulsory quality of art.
The song which they have made has its likes to the song which i've pointed out,still i dun call it plagiarism, because i see what was meant to be displayed has been done by the heart and accurately.
" fortune off other's people's hard work"...hmmm...i dont disagree, but then i dont agree either.
i think the pros of pritam overtake his cons, nd tell u what: not listening to his music wil be the gr8test thing u can do, go on n do it if u can.
nd if ur feelin insecure n got any stinky kinky frnds in ur wake,plz tell them to hurry up.
the bands you had highlighted are class apart..
love them totally..!!
nice post..
The temperature readings have reached new heights all over the world, floods have become more frequent, hurricanes have become more violent and strong, many species of birds and animals are getting extinct, new diseases and plagues are originating- the so called peaceful mother Earth is no more peaceful now. It is now ready to give us back what we gave it to her. For millions of years human beings have inhabited the earth , used its resources for their own development with the thought that whatever be the case -mother Earth is always there, her resources are infinite, she can bear it all. But recent findings regarding the abnormalities about her behavior has forced us to ponder over the virtual immortality of Earth. How much time do we have? We talk about our natural resources going to end in a hundred years or so ,after which we are left with nothing. But will the earth be able to cater our needs for another hundred years!!! ?? Global warming - the most hyped subject in environment study which has revealed facts and figures that can trace a drastic shift in the environment around us in the next 40-50 years. Some neglect it and say that there is nothing as such thing as global warming. What exactly is global warming? Is it the heating up of the planet only? How will it effect the environment around us? Go and find out!! ,and please stop this ongoing debate.
PS:- Tomorrow is my environmental sciences exam !! :( .. No worries though .. not a graded subject ..Yay! .. so virtually the midsems are over !!..yay! .. ibanez!! yay!..this midsem was my last spring semester midsem ..Yay!!
dude you got any agnee on you?
Scribblers Inc.
Alok: Sorry for fighting on your blog.
Ayushi: Hey, hey. Watch your language. This is just a discussion. How dare you abuse me? Have you no manners?
Ki & Ayushi :
Copyright act says that a particular work can be inspired by other's work provided special efforts are added in by author of the work to claim new copyright.
So acording to copyright act pritam will never has to face any consequences. SO IT IS NOT COPIED ITS INSPIRED. Plagiarism is different.
In my opinion we indians do not listen to many or rather any korean song. Sp if any gentleman like pritams accesses it and find it useful and thinks that its worthy to be taken to Indian public at large .. then it should not be considered plagiarized.
in the case of many english novels which gets translated to some other language , the copyright is reserved with the translator.
so basically its same here .. pritam has just made use of Hindi words and made them gibe in the rhythm..
So no copyright infringed.
p.s rather a sincere request: please maintain the sanctity of other's blog and comment space.
The Paratrooper,
Haven't heard that concert. Lemme see if I can find it. Junoon are indeed legends, I agree.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Vinz,
I'm glad you enjoy listening to them.
Thanks!
Scribbler's Inc,
Yup, have their debut album with me.
Ayushi, Metal-Militant, Ki, Soham, Big Omi,
I believe that a discussion or a debate is always a good thing. It's always good to know different point of view and learn from them if they appeal to you.
The only problem arises when the discussion stops being about the topic itself and comes down to a personal level, where we indulge in labeling and accusing each other.
On the issue itself, As this post suggests, the one thing I care about is originality, and Pritam is Not Original. Truly, art is about expressing yourself. But what good is an artist if he has to depend on others for the basis of his expression?
So what if he isn't liable to copyright infringement? (as Omi here points out). That does not make Pritam any better. He might not be "plagiarising", but his effort is minimal. And that's why I dislike him. It's the composition that matters, and not how it is presented.
This is equivalent to saying that if I make an attractive new telephone set, I can say it's my invention now. Alexander Graham Bell had no contribution to it. It does not matter if what makes the telephone really work is due to Bell's work. All that matters is my telephone looks prettier. XD
This was a fun discussion, I enjoyed it. Do not feel sorry, I don't believe in any "sanctity" of blog or comment space.
Ayushi,
The whole idea of learning and practicing is to be able to put into form what's in Your head. The best artists are the ones who can do that most easily. So you see, effort matters. Consciously or not, your brain can easily detect the effort behind something.
As I said before, Pritam's contribution to "his" songs is limited only to changing the sound and adding a few tidbits here and there. That's like the least effort required to make a song. So what if the song sounds good? Is it Pritam's work that made it sound good? No. He just modified the song according to the tastes of the common public so that they can recognise it easily. So it's actually the composition that you hear and appreciate, presented in a form that you can understand.
If you were not a stranger to Indonesian styles of music, you'd like the original Indonesian song as much as you do the "inspired" version.
It all boils down to tastes. Pritam is just using the fact that not everyone is averse with international music, and that Indian tastes are different. I find it utterly disgusting. You may not, well, I have no problems with that.
P.S. Labeling others is the easiest way out, isn't it?
Ayushi:
It does not take too long to respond to a blog post.Especially one by you.So yes,I do have a life.If you have the life you claim to,why would you waste it on abusing someone who has posted for the 1st time on this topic AND has made exponentially more sense than you and moreover,has not said anything demeaning to you?
Now, you could do one of 2 things:
A) Take heed of the advice people give to you here. We're not fighting,we want to point you in the right direction.If music is an art,then there's all the more reason why one should not lift tunes and rhythms from existing songs and market them as his own.Has a painter ever got away with lifting concepts from another existing painting?I think not. So there's no reason why a musician should either.Listen to the bands Alok pointed out here,that's quality original music,the way it should be.
B) Continue being this musically-illiterate,stubborn Pritam fangirl who is at war with anyone who acknowledges that Pritam blatantly lifts tunes from unknown artistes and sells them to the public who lap all of it up like thirsty cats.Continue being someone who refuses to learn the meaning of plagiarism and yea,to type coherently.
The choice is yours.
Aha...so many comments!
@All Readers
My Apologies,
I agree with what Omi says, and what he said made my conscience hurt,and despite what Alok says, I think an apology is needed.
Please accept my apology for I did not intend to hurt anybody’s feelings, its just that I believe in tit-for-tat, and if there have been such reactions from me which in any way have disturbed the sancity of this blog(not that it had lots of it anyway ;)),they were because I felt a similar force directed towards me, and my reactions,to me,seem to be justified enough.
I play no offence,only defence. Metal has been deviating from a calm and composed discussion all throughout(his tone itself says it),even now,he did not ned to say all that he has done. I did not take this up as a fight(I was enjoying it all quite thouroughly!)
This apology is,however,directed to everybody except metal n ki for I find myself incapable of conversing with them without abusing, so I think I’ll mail him(incase I’ll lead to anymore desanctification) telling him why he’s a bad case of sporadic herpes with his alzhemeric frnd ‘ki’ who doesn’t remember insinuating to me that i was an oxymoron(not to say that she’s insecure enough to not have her mail options open)!
@Alok: Hmm...you always seem to be having a stronger argument using my own principles, thank you. This post has made me look in a different perspective towards music. Maybe I’ll change my views someday,though backing Pritam seems to be an emotional effect of art ;)
Ayushi
Suit yourself. I have always backed my arguments with reason.You haven't.You have ranted on and on with the same point.I have always been calm and composed.Give me one example where I've lost my head (and don't say so because I didn't say 'apologies this' or 'granted that'.I had a point to make.I made it).I have never called you anything despite you calling me so many things. And the fact that my arguments were on the same lines as the people you apologized to,I think you should take back what you said about me.I'm in no way asking for an apology but I seriously think you should look at posts with less hostility.If not me,at least leave Ki alone.All she did was make ONE post that made a LOT of sense.
Even in my rantings, there has been much rationality. Learn to pick it up. Thats another difference b/w ppl like u n me: I do not consider anybody’s thinking as bullshit. Believe me,there are things that I’ve learnt ..even from you.
But had you only given heed enough to what I was saying, you could have given me counter views, but you comments were more in from of imposition than a sequential debate. Here itself the concept of you composition goes, and calmth? Let alone calmth, I’ve not even seen a hint of maturity(which compelled me to lose mine) in the groupist manner in which you speak(however,the way you spoke now, is quite a preferred one,and certainly less 'sneering')
And its really none of your business what happens b/w me n Ki. She has payed the price for calling me what she did. Her comment made the least sense of all, I do not waste my time in making those people unstan who don’t want to, Ki displayed the same spirit and I consider myself to have been generous at that.I have anulled all what she has said in the subsequent comment, something which you have failed to do all along and therefore have violated anything in the form a logical train of thoughts.
Hostility? Well, you were the one who was being judgemental first, and as i have said, I repay.
So I'm sarcastic.So what?This is the internet.If you're going to bring up a topic like this,expect sarcasm from people who like to capitalize.I share the same opinion as the others here.Its just that others have been more polite about it.I have never spoken in a groupist manner. I have taken the weak sections of your arguments and turned them against you,which is what a healthy argument is all about.Again,I have never resorted to name-calling,something that you have practically made a career out of.I asked you to point out just ONE example where I lost my head.You haven't managed to.Whereas if you're accusing me of fighting with you,YOU threw the 1st punch by calling me 'mental milli'.For what?For being a bit sarcastic?The you went on to call me a hypocrite and even worse,a bad case of sporadic herpes. All for not agreeing with what you said. Do you have any idea how easily I could have said such things to you because you were being to downright stubborn and sentimental about Pritam?Still,I did not say ANYTHING to you.I think THAT would qualify as maturity.And what the hell HAVE I imposed on to you?Did I ever tell you to stop listening to Pritam?Telling someone to listen to quality music is not equal to telling them to stop listening to what they like.You can listen to whatever you want.Just learn to recognize a stolen tune when you hear one.
And as far as Ki is concerned,I do feel obliged to defend her because you have abused her for a misunderstanding which was TOTALLY on your part.An OXYMORON is NOT EQUAL to calling someone a MORON.Its a term in the English language which refers to a phrase or a situation that negates itself e.g true lies. But you didn't know that. So you decide to say stuff like 'fuck your timings' and decided to call her friends 'stinky' and 'kinky'.Why?How well do you know her friends?Or even HER for that matter?Did she ever attack you personally(barring the 'oxymoron')?Or your friends?She made a very legitimate and sensible comment.Something that even Soham made.Why the hell are you giving her and me so much flak for calling a spade a spade?
Anyway,you're probably going to just not read this comment but just see who wrote it and then continue calling me immature and abusing Ki.You're going to continue forgiving people who steal tunes and sell them as their own.You're going to continue worrying about being spoken politely to in an online debate.
And I hate to apologise for something I have not done,but if this is the only way to end this,then I'm sorry.
OH!!! U observed so many details about the movie Rock On. To me it was just another Hindi movie trying to appear different and succeeding in many ways.
And I just attended the Indian Ocean concert a couple weeks ago. Believe it or not..I did not even know who they were before the concert.
By this comment you have only proved too well of the points I have put against you. Analyse it and you'll see.You are simply denying unreasonably.
Just removing some of ur misunderstandings: sarcasm n u?...oh no dear, ur just not intelligent enough to be either sarcastic or witty. end
hehehehe.....Look here, I come on the internet for fun(other reasons are best kept away from you), and if you would not let me have fun one way,I'll have it outta you-simple nuf,aint it dude?
i just like punching ppl lil bit here n there...for me its fun...n thats certainly all that matters
n leave Ki alone, she can think and stand up for herself(uh uh..by telling me i have no manners uh uh).
===================================
anyways...just finish this...man toh kar raha hai do char gaali aur de doon for the fake u r...still still..man karega toh MAIL(even if u wish to reply,DO NOT reply here,m nt continuing dis nymore, we are only making the 'genuine' commenters' more pareshaan i guess...deviated frm d topic completely) anymore kar doongi..just F this(no,that wasnt fuck,it was finish)
uh oh i keep missing out on points everytime i write in a hurry, so here
The usage of English Language
oxymoron does mean a 'moron'(coz of self conradiction)..she did not need to use that word 'oxym.', she could have very well said 'self-contradictory' ...we use such language only to drop subtle hints and insinuations.
While the meaning of the text may remain very clean,yet the usage conveys a lot many feelings.
Secondly, I've always made a very distinct line b/w personal parts of the comment and the main discussion. You on the other hand,had mixed the main discussion in sneering(this is what flaunts ur lack of maturity)
Thirdly, by 'imposed' I meant,just given ur seperate opinions which were not in the form of a sequential discussion.
Fourthly, I'm not worrying about been spoken politely to. I've been a part of bigger forums than these. I don't give a damn to what u call me(I ignore false judgements). It was only you and ki who had a problem.
Dont worry, more questions will be answered by mail.
Ayushi: Okay. First of all, I didn't call anyone an 'oxymoron'. That's just a grammatical term.
Secondly, why should I give my email ID out? To be contacted by angry commenters like you? No way man.
And don't abuse me or my friends. I was nothing but supremely polite to you. And even though I disagree with what you're saying and your hostile attitude, I will continue to be respectful and polite because that is how I was brought up and that is how I conduct myself. Just don't judge me or my friends. That's pushing it a bit too far.
Peace.
OK,I have diagnosed her problem Ki.She's a fangirl.Period.She can't stand comments against Pritam and takes them personally.She has had very little exposure to good music apparently,and does not understand the meaning of art.And lets not talk about her poor skills with the English language,you could write a whole thesis on that.She is OBLIVIOUS to the bigger picture presented in a counter-argument,and worries only about statements that could harm her integrity.And she STILL hasn't been able to point out an example of me losing my head with her. Despite my having scrutinized EACH and EVERY point mentioned by her in her comments, she continues to think that I'm immature. Lets see,how credible is a Pritam fangirl who REFUSES to understand the meaning of plagiarism when its SCREAMING OUT IN AGONY IN FRONT OF HER!!!!And she calls me immature.As for wit,oh yea,she surpasses everyone there e.g:
"Dont worry your little head on the loves and life of Ayushi."
HAHA!!!So you want to have fun???All right,lets go!!!All this time I thought that there was SOME hope to change your pitiful attitude towards music,but now all hope is lost.Tell me when you want to stop.
@ Ki, Ayushi,Metal Millitant,
1. Mind all your language.
2.Ki's comment of oxymoron is mis-interpreted. Rather Ki its u who have put the word wrongly. It acted as adjective to Ayushi.
3. I don't think Ayushi's was anywhere a fangirl. She had an Idea and representing it.
4.Metal Millitant - u got urself involved unnecessarily. (for all known reasons and chemistries)
5. Common we have been knowing Ayushi for quite a long and we never faced such bad language from her. It just got triggered cuz of u all know what - Oxymoron thingie.
6. This groupism sucks big time.
be open to Ideas. appreciate/ disagree other's view. But u have got no right to judge it as good or bad. Coz of the very simple reason that its someome's damn Idea.
Ayushi ur grammar and vocab is damn fabulous . but u need to understand which comment is to be replied and which are to be left unanswered. this time by backfiring u have downed the benchmark of ur dignity. let go and learn.
Metal Millitant,
You have got a noesis of music and to be precise - Rock n roll . But u got into murky politics. I have already requested for sanctity in blogville. We always had intellectual crowd commenting on our blogs. Genuinity will always be admired.
Ki,
u know something?? u were good with your comment but u were not able to put up ur thots properly.
my boss says " Say what you mean, and mean what you say"
@ Alok,
Am a legal person. I will always go by the machinery set by the government to judge plagiarism. and the most famous and accepted all over the world is Copyright act.
If you remember i got u one case where on dude copied ur title and i gave u the opinion of sending him a notice. So my standards and benchmarks are always fixed up and they don't change with every other post.
Best regards,
Big Omi
Big Omi
Wise you are.Diplomatic as well.But too diplomatic I fear.Ayushi did not have an IDEA,she had a MISCONCEPTION.She refused to acknowledge the meaning of plagiarism and from her comments it was evident that she CANNOT bear to hear anything against Pritam.I just found it necessary to make that fact known.And going by her hostile behaviour,I succeeded. Why did I find it necessary?Because I believe that since music IS an art,only original music deserves credibility because the case is similar to that of a painting.
And Ki made it very clear that she was referring to the term 'copied deliberately' when she said Oxymoron.And that term CANNOT be used on a person,so obviously Ayushi had no knowledge of that term.
As for the Copyright Act,its messed up.Basically Pritam can get away by just changing the lyrics?That's ridculous.Not only is it unfair to the person he's stolen from,but its also demeaning to the basic essence of music because in all his stolen songs,the MUSIC i.e the rhythm and the beats,are the SAME.
But I believe my work is done.And thanks for believing that I HAVE learned a great deal about music from experience.I'm not against any form of music (except the minimalistic,simplistic,beat-bastardized version) so I suggest that people stop thinking that metal fans are not credible or intelligent enough to talk about other aspects of music.
dude.
oxymoron means belying juxtapose qualities and it very well can serve to be adjective to human quality. I have already mentioned that Ki's intention were good. but she messed up with the words. and it came insulting. and mind you it did.
and if you are worried about Indian copyright act then don't worry i am in talk with them to increase the efficiency of the laid machinery. soon u can expect something big.
and godamnit its not about Pritam . If its Plagiarized it needs to be punished. But I think Pritam has done everything in a fashion thats allowed by our law. so hes not to be blamed
{ Disclaimer : I am not advocate or fan of Pritam neither do I listen to music because its produced by particular paerson. I like music in all genres}
I believe you are taking my arbitration in a constructive fashion.
And thanks for praising me with that word DIPLOMATIC. Its an honor to be called diplomatic for a legalite
Best Regards,
BIG Omi
Hey thank you guys!!
I never thought that the no. of comments on any post of mine would cross the magical number of 75.
You've made it possible! *sniff* XD
BIG Omi,
I know you're a legal person, and that your comment was meant to discuss the legal perspective of the issue. Thank you for sharing that.
However, what I wanted to say in my reply was: I don't care about "legal" standards or whatever they are that are commonly accepted all over the world and whatever.
All I care about is originality. In my opinion, Pritam is not original. If you don't agree or the the Law doesn't agree, I have no qualms with that. Accept what you want to.
But if you're saying that I should accept Pritam as a non plagiarist because he's not a plagiarist "legally"... well, just look at how funny that sounded. XD
@ Alok,
Wannabe you!!! ;)
P.S. My standards and "Bench"marks are set too, that's due to years of beatings received on school benches. :'(
P.P.S. One day I'll have my revenge. *Bloodthirst* :D
Hey Omi, thank you :)
I think I'll take your advice.
Still, Metal, i think you are socially unfit.
Dear Readers,
I have decided that I am not going to comment on any post on this blog hereafter for good.
Hence my absence from the subsequent posts(although the next post represents an interesting creation of nature). Thank you.
Ayushi,
Uhhh, your choice, man.
Just wanted to say, you have always been my best critic and my favourite commenter. I'd definitely miss your comments.
@ Alok,
i know what you wanna say dude. but actually speaking legal is one determining factor.. legally its like either you are pregnant or you are not..
I never doubted your standards and benchmarks buddy :D .
@ Ki,
I appreciate your decision . let other readers know that your stand was correct.
chul take care m off from office..
Yours Sincerely blogger.
Big omi
@ Ayushi
sorry .. the last comment was bymistakely typed as @ Ki it was @ Ayushi .. and as alok said u are the best Ayushi. Learnt a lot from you.
Take care
BIG Omi,
Okay, so the next time I see a pregnant woman, I'll bring her to court to ascertain the legality of her pregnancy.
man u took it wrong way ... its a general saying in legal .. either you are plagiarist or u r not..
chuck tht .. mebbe u really cant shove that legal thingie down the nerves... i understand..
Tc.
Omi
ill try and ftp u on that one when i get back to my home..i have the dvd... dnt worry... ur song favour is pending...
In this reply
//MM are Mtal Militant's quotes
//AA are Alok's quotes
//SS are my previous quotes
@Metal-Militant,
//MM you say you haven't seen the movie,yet you assume that the music is not Rock music.
Well MM, its perfectly possible to know songs of a movie even when you haven't seen the movie. This is the wonderful age of fascinating things like TV Music Channels and FM radio channels. So I still haven't seen the movie and yet I know (and like) so many of the songs! (Eighth wonder of the world eh???)
//MM Well,I've seen it and it is.But that's not what I want to take up here.
Well OK if you say its rock music, it may be. You are the expert here.
Now let me degress a bit:
I am only as much exposed to Rock Music as a typical engineering student, with no prior interest or disinterest in Rock Music, but whose college is fashionable enough to organise at least 2-3 major non -technical festivals per year and almost each invariably involving some live performances, etc. These have been by our own student budding rock stars as well as bands including SEL, Strings, Jal, Indian Ocean, Parikrama, Moksha, Killer Tomatoes, etc. Some came before me, some after me, some during my 4 years. During my 4 years, I been to some of them, not been to some. Amongst the ones I've been to I have never tried to technically analyse what real rock is. I listened to the sound. If I liked, I stayed. If I disliked I got out. Even when I liked, if it got too loud, I walked out cos I love my ears. So you see whatever real rock may be, I don't care and go just by instantaneous me like/no like. So I do not claim any authority on rock. But I do know rock, in a way, limited to what I described above.
Now coming back to your concern about me saying is not 'real rock'. Well dude, its not my opinion. I don't have one. I simply trusted in the authority/opinion of Alok on these matters.
//AA The music (provided by Shankar Ehsaan Loy) is some original stuff, but yes, it's just "Rock music" meant to appeal to popular audiences, with mostly pop-rock and alternative rock influences.
You see alok has put quotes around Rock music above. Which, if I understand English correctly, means he was having reservations about calling it that. Which means according to him, it isnt REAL Rock music, just something trying to pass off as one. So my reply started from that point.
//MM You say that if they were ACTUALLY a Rock band in the movie,they might as well focus on writing Rock music rather than a movie.In that case what will they show in the movie?If its a movie about a Rock band,they HAVE TO show the music right?
//And that Mumbai police analogy is totally out of place.Just read it once and you'll agree.
MM, my point is, when you make a movie on an established thing, you should make it feel like the established thing, so that people do find it believable.
The mumbai police analogy is perfect in place. Please read it again , and only hope you will understand.
Make movie on rock-make movie on mumbai police.
Use a hotchpotch of existing kinda rock - Use the existing look-feel-uniform of mumbai police.
//MM And why the hell SHOULDN'T they show the band in plain clothes?Isn't a Rock band identified by the 'NOISE that they make'?
Well MM, I would like to express my thoughts on this from various perspectives.
First, yes, if we can come up with a 'NOISE' that is clearly identifiable as rock genre, we can have freedom to wear anything we like. The real bands that wear the Indian wear do exactly that. Since they make real rock, their attire becomes the new identity of Indian-Pakistani rockers, which you and Alok seem to be defending.
But anyways rock is not of Indian origin (pls enlighten me if wrong). The original 'rock stars' wear such 'morbid' dark attires, tshirts et al. So the movie makers had choice to dress the actors in 'ethnic Indian rockstar' wear
or the 'metallica' wear, or since we have the two established 'rock' wear, anything in between. They just made a choice here. If its not the choice which is not as per liking of some people, its not much of their problem, apart from little lost revenue .
Secondly, I understand that you have formed the opinion that the movie's music quite lives upto the name of rock. But you see, my comment was for alok's post, for his expressed views, not in anticipation of your comment, not aware of your opinion.
And as I already mentioned, alok seems to think its not really rock music. Lets see that from perspective of your own comment again
//MM And why the hell SHOULDN'T they show the band in plain clothes?Isn't a Rock band identified by the 'NOISE that they make'?
So you see, if as per alok's view the music is not identifieable NOISE, they shouldn't goof around further trying on plain clothes. Better go by the established and popular notion of what rock stars wear. If not connect with real rockers (through rocking music), at least be 'identifiable' to every persson in the audience through clothes. The operative keyword is being instantly identifiable, not 'being appreciated by real rockers'.
And this is where my 'out of place' fits so perfectly again.
Bollywood shows police in all sorts of lights. Goofing jokers, extremely corrupt rascals, overly honest cops, etc. None of these may be what an average Indian policeman is like. But its the attire that identifes them as police of India (lets not limit to mumbai). Similarly established attire identifies the actors as rockstars, whether their 'performance' in the movie is like real rockers or not.
And well MM, about the midnight romps, drugs etc that you mentioned general public think rock is about, well it was the last thing+1 on my mind. I say +1 because it wasn't even the last thing. It was not on my mind at all.
Though now that you talk about it, I do agree all that did happen in my college along with rock ;). Though all I was never directly involved. I just hung around totally sober with the all the 'high crowd' as long as I liked the music, and the only banging I was involved in was the head-banging along with the music ;)
//MM You say that you don't care about Rock bands,so I doubt you should pretend to know stuff about it.
Well MM, I once again find some weird lapse of logic here. Like your lapse regarding watching movie and knowing its song. Knowing a thing and caring about it are different. I know rock music (though only as much as I do from the college experience I described), I felt it when I heard it, and then well don't really go around obsessing over it rest of my waking hours. So I don't really 'care' about it.
//All your arguments are based on the ignorant public's viewpoint of Rock,which is not the truth.
So MM, what defines ignorant public? Hmm could it be 'anyone other than MM or not having same views as MM'?
Anyways
What IS the truth?
@alok,
if MM said exactly what you wanted to say, well you see my replies to 'you' above.
But I do undertand you, an music composer yourself (please don't go into whats composer and whats what, I may not be technically correct, but you understand what I am saying right?) are aginst the non originality of the movie.
But you see its not job of a movie to make original rock music.
You mention in one comment how Black Friday had good music. Well you see the makers were a real rock band as you mentioned. I dont know whether SEL can be called that. They make more of commercial music and well thats what they did.
A movie uses a given framework to tell a story. It is not meant to give new life and meaning to that framework.
The Titanic was not really about the ship. The ship was the body of the movie. But its core or soul was the story of Rose.
Rock band is just the framework of this movie. The soul is perhaps frienships, aspirations, life (going by opinion of those who saw the movie)
Just like Cameroon tried to be as close to the established idea of the titanic ship instead of designing a new original luxury cruise ship, this movie has patched together the established ideas (popular ideas if you insist) of rock and woven a story around. It is not trying top create a rockband with its own fresh take on rock
Stupidosaur,
Hey thank you so much for taking your time out to check out this post and make the all time record for the largest comment on my Blog! :D
However, I am in no mood at all to read it, let alone discuss it or give a proper reply. My opinion/judgment of the movie was fixed by its ad campaign, and its publicity (including Arjun Rampal and gang going to Guitar shops and signing guitars). I don't like the movie. I've given my reason in the post: lack of originality. I am not discussing it any further.
As I've already said in the post, this is not a movie review. I am not imposing my views on anyone. This was what I felt about the movie, and I don't think discussing will change it.
stupidosaur
Well at least you're not illiterate about music.I'm sorry for lashing out at you like that.But I stand by what I said.
A rock band is identified by the music they make.When someone walks into the room while I'm blasting Bloodbath from the speakers,they identify (surprisingly correctly this time) it as death metal and walk out immediately.Similarly,Magik's music was rock.If someone was to walk into a room where someone's listening to Magik,he/she would identify it as rock.Gone are the days when one's supposed to wear shimmering mirror-studded Elvis-like clothes or tight,black,shiny leather.Hell,RHCP have even performed naked with just socks on their cocks.So the clothes should actually be low priority. And like you said to Alok,if the movie is about friendship and staying together,then the KIND of clothes should matter least.
As far as the band itself is concerned,if the little bits of music they show connect well with the audience,then it can be convincing enough. Take Dethklok's example.They're an animated band created for TV show Metalocalypse.Their music shown on the show became SUCH a hit with the fans that the producers of Metalocalypse even released a 'debut album' for Dethklok.And recently,they even PERFORMED in Canada!!!!So with he right material composed and more importantly,SHOWN in a movie,a fictitious band's concept can go VERY far. Staying on topic,I myself wish that Chakravyuh released an album themselves.
As far as 'the truth' is concerned,the truth is,there should NEVER be any stereotypes associated with rock.The only predictable thing about rock is that its unpredictable.Not every rocker smokes or drinks,not every rocker is straight,not every rocker wears designer 'rockstar' clothes...but anyone who calls himself a true rocker cares ONLY about the music.
Stupidosaur,
The first thing I want to say is, SEL are one of the best music composers in the Indian scene right now. Ehsaan, their guitarist, has been to Berklee school of music, the place that has produced some of the greatest guitarists of the contemporary world (for example, Steve Vai). Shankar Mahadevan's prowess in Indian classical vocals is known to everyone (frankly, his "Breathless" is a much better song than any of the songs in this movie). Loy has expertise in many forms of music. When they perform live, they have the amazing ability to perform their songs in a different form (for example, a bollywood song performed to sound like jazz).
With such a talented group behind the movie's music, I expected more. Not going into technicalities, the songs are mostly based on one (or at max two) simple melody played as a riff on a guitar. There is nothing compositionally striking about it. And I know SEL could have done a thousand times better job. With their influences (like Shankar's Classical Indian vocals), they could have produced something astonishingly new and exciting. They have the ability to be a real Rock band, with some diverse ideas and a truly original sound.
But they have not. The reason: it should sound like it's "Rock music" to someone who is completely oblivious to Rock music. Hence the simplicity in composition but the crunch in the sound.
Now speaking on the example you have given, Titanic. Well, tell me this, while watching the movie, did it even for a moment let you guess that it's not a real ship which they were showing but all computer graphics, models, sets?
No, right? They conjured each and every detail to the last level. They made it so believable, you feel part of the people on board. You feel when the ship is sinking.
My first point against "Rock On" is precisely this. It feels artificial. When I see the band members, I see four actors posing as rockstars. Looks are secondary. Let's look at the music, which is what the movie is about, it's nothing special as I've mentioned above.
Titanic as a movie was original because it gave a fresh perspective to the whole story of the Titanic sinking: Rose's story. Everyone knew that the titanic sunk due to an iceberg. Everyone knew about it being the largest ship of it's time. Even the fireworks being used as SOS signals are known details. Then why should I go watch the movie? Because of the fresh perspective from Rose's story. Because the movie makes you feel as if it's the real Titanic they're showing.
So you see, that is the originality I'm talking about. There has been a Mockumentary movie called "Spinal Tap" which was a take on Metal/Rock music culture, criticising it. The fictional band created by the movie people was so popular, they have actually released 4 albums.
As Metal-Militant points out, do check about Dethklok, which is an animated Death Metal band. They have released an album too (with a couple of good songs, I must say).
I think I have now clearly expressed my take on the movie. In the end, it's all about Originality.
@alok & metal militant
Okie Dokie.
I get it.
Its not original.
Fictional rock band can be good, but SEL did not live up to expectations.
One of you dislikes the movie and its music. One of you kinda likes it.
100th comment on this post and my first on this blog
Im make myself clear with the fact that I know no one over here and I have often liked pritams composition
BUT originality is better than being inspired
And Big Omi s legal justification that atranslator owns copygights of translated work and not the original author is fine,but it is expected of the translator to mention the original work which is being translated or what he is inspired from.
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